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Apple does not deserve their unfair market position. They are bleeding small businesses dry and if they continue this, they need to be broken up. Same with Google and Android.

They can't make a phone and simultaneously control the app distribution. Things didn't work like this in the 90s and 00s.

I'm hoping there's a future the web can win. With WASM and full access to native APIs, we can build and distribute truly free apps without being overloarded by these giant monopolies trying to bleed us dry.

The government should mandate that apps work on all platforms, with the onus being on platform owners to make it work.



> I'm hoping there's a future the web can win. With WASM and full access to native APIs, we can build and distribute truly free apps without being overloarded by these giant monopolies trying to bleed us dry.

I'm hopeful about this too, but it seems Apple is consciously avoiding cannibalizing their developer program by giving too much API access. For example, despite Web Push being a standard for years now and supported by desktop Safari, not only is it not implemented on iOS Safari, other browsers are seemingly prevented from implementing it. Whole classes of PWA are eliminated by not having notification access (e.g. turn-based games).


>I'm hoping there's a future the web can win

With Google owning the web with Chromium, dictating web standards and monopolizing web site discovery trough Google search, that isn't exactly a bright future.

We need open standards, other browser vendors and more rendering engines. MS killed their web engine and Firefox doesn't have a great market share.


Big megacorps will always be in a power position and will dictate the rules unless the states and the law steps in.

This is to the detriment of both small companies and general public.

Capitalism answer to this is competition. Which is fine if you are allowed to compete.


So should Amazon not be allowed to host the third party marketplace? Should the console makers not be allowed to have their own store? Should physical retail not be allowed to sell their own in house brands?

As far as things didn’t work like this is in the 90s, Atari had its own digital store in the 80s where you could buy games and have them downloaded over cable to a cartridge.


> So should Amazon not be allowed to host the third party marketplace?

People should be able to run their own distribution. It's the Internet and it's a simple problem. Companies need to stop dipping their fingers in the pie and offering little in recompense.

> Should the console makers not be allowed to have their own store?

There are three major gaming consoles, PC, mobile, self-distribution... lots of platforms with which to gain distribution. There are libraries and frameworks that let you write the game once and publish it to all platforms.

Gaming is a small sector compared to everything we run on our phones. Movies, finance, communication, dating. Apple and Google tax all of the commerce happening there. I'd much rather give that money to the government instead of helping these two build a deeper moat.

> Should physical retail not be allowed to sell their own in house brands?

They do this at a loss to aid negotiations for pricing and ensuring they get enough stock. It's complicated.


* People should be able to run their own distribution. It's the Internet and it's a simple problem. Companies need to stop dipping their fingers in the pie and offering little in recompense.*

So has Amazon stopped people from selling their stuff on their own website?

There are three major gaming consoles, PC, mobile, self-distribution... lots of platforms with which to gain distribution. There are libraries and frameworks that let you write the game once and publish it to all platforms.

There are also frameworks that help you publish to both mobile platforms. But just like cross platform games, you still need to own the development machines for the console or computer.

Movies, finance, communication, dating. Apple and Google tax all of the commerce happening there.

Most commerce happening there is done on the providers website. The client is on the mobile site. Apple nor Google get a cut.

They do this at a loss to aid negotiations for pricing and ensuring they get enough stock. It's complicated.

You really think store brands are sold at a loss and not a higher profit?


It seems like you have a point to make but it's not coming through. The comment you're replying to is proposing opening up the developer platforms to allow people to sell their own stuff.

> So has Amazon stopped people from selling their stuff on their own website?

Yes, along with google. By monopolizing search. You won't ever be able to find Bob's home store online when they push their own stores and paid ads on top of everything else.

Coming back to Apple, it definitely stopped people from selling their stuff. There is no way to load third-party apps on their platform besides the App Store. There is no way to provide payments (or even mention you sell stuff) without giving up 30% of your revenue.


Yes, along with google. By monopolizing search. You won't ever be able to find Bob's home store online when they push their own stores and paid ads on top of everything else.

This shows a severe lack of imagination. Everyone by definition can’t stand out via organic search. Should you really start a business if your only customer acquisition strategy is SEO and organic search? In MBA speak “What's your unfair advantage”?

And once again, there is an existence proof from dozens of companies that force you to pay for the service outside of the store to use the app. They aren’t just big companies. I mentioned before that the smallish B2B company I use to work at had an app on the store that required health systems to sign a six figure a year contract to use and Apple didn’t see a penny of it.

Speaking of which, I’ve worked for four small B2B companies that had sense enough to not put their customer acquisition destiny in Google’s hands. They actually had a sales force, a contact list, went to industry events, published in industry specific journals, made sure they appeared in the upper right of “Gartner’s Magic Quadrant”, etc.

It still amazes me how many excuses people make for not having a realistic customer acquisition strategy.

Even on the consumer side how many B2C companies have become successful by advertising on relevant podcasts?


This whole thread is about Apple & Google holding an unfair monopoly position and controlling distribution. Besides that being a lot more relevant for B2C, none of what you said goes against that (yes, Android still allows side-loading, riddled with warnings, only viable for business customers).

No point being successful in marketing if Apple decides to summarily remove your app from the store for no good reason at all.


>Everyone by definition can’t stand out via organic search

He didn't claim everyone should stand out, his complaint is that organic search itself is being demoted and replaced.


Where exactly did he make that point? Exactly how is organic search being “demoted”?


Here:

>You won't ever be able to find Bob's home store online when they push their own stores and paid ads on top of everything else.


So what about Mary, Sue, Becky and the dozens of other owners of Home Stores. All of them can’t hope to be discovered via organic search. Who starts a business without a customer acquisition strategy? Being found on Google organic is not a customer acquisition strategy. Who starts a business without an “unfair advantage”?


> So should Amazon not be allowed to host the third party marketplace?

The whole point is that they should. Why can't I buy iOS apps through Amazon? Or on a USB stick from Walmart or Gamestop like boxed software for Windows? Why can't I get it directly from the developer's website?

The problem isn't that Apple or Google has a store, it's that everybody should be able to have a store, without having to be the size of Apple or Google or Amazon.


Because the entire point of the App Store is the review process. But you do realize even physical games you buy for consoles have to be reviewed and approved by the console makers and they still get a cut?


> Because the entire point of the App Store is the review process.

So who is stopping you from buying all your apps from the App Store after they've gone through the review process? Why do you need to stop everybody else from choosing to do something different than you and having their iPhone apps reviewed by somebody else?

> But you do realize even physical games you buy for consoles have to be reviewed and approved by the console makers and they still get a cut?

That is indeed the same situation, and consoles should not be restricting competing app distribution methods either.




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