I prefer airlines that don't nickel and dime. In fact, I prefer to fly less since the experience has consistently deteriorated over decades. If you travel internationally you get the added fun of dealing with border agents. And even they have discovered price discrimination, with their VIP lines.
All told, is all this chicanery benefiting airlines?
Yes, it’s a way to extract something from all buckets. Higher income people you can get more money but with low incoming ones you get a lot more quantity since there are way more lower income people. Laws and regulations prevent people standing up or overloading planes with passengers so this is the alternative.
Airlines are actually very low margin business. Thus, all these pricing tactics merely offset the drastically cheaper tickets. It makes sense, their margins are so low that they have to nickel and dime everything to make a small profit in good years and avoid going under next recession.
and if all those people paid the same amount then there would be the same end result, but the situation would have nothing to do with the conversation, so i'm afraid that explains nothing.
Ryanair has been very successful with their PR. They've made sure that people who don't fit their customer profile will have an irrational hate for the airline without ever having flew them. And that people who are looking for the biggest bargains flock to them. And the price difference is just ridiculous.
And I don't even understand what everyone's problem with Ryanair is, except maybe the company's treatment of its own personnel. Flights have been just as smooth as with some more expensive carriers. I haven't gone to any party destinations though, if that's what the bacchanal reference is about.
Flying used to be for the ultra rich, people’d gather around them to listen to their plane ride story. The poor in this case are not the poorest but poor comparatively
> All told, is all this chicanery benefiting airlines?
Yes.
An example is paid baggage. It used to be that stowage space was mostly a waste of capacity on an airplane. But with the help of modern software making coordinating shipping easier, they can make lucrative money shipping cargo on passenger flights.
So encouraging passengers to not bring bags and keeping that capacity for cargo is a feature, not a bug.
The tradeoff on short domestic flights is that it encourages more - and larger - carry-ons, which slows down boarding/deplaning and therefore adds to turnaround time. If I don't have to pay for checked bags, I'd often prefer to have mine checked, especially if I have a connection - but since I do, I'll squeeze everything into a carry-on roller bag instead. Personally, it only takes me an extra second or two, but when you have a whole family doing this and only parent who can actually reach the overhead bins, it bogs down the whole aisle.
This is why I love it when airlines charge for carry-on bags, like spirit does. Everyone just has a teeny little backpack. Getting on and off is a breeze.
FedEx'ing baggage between home and a distant hotel is awesome. I haven't done it recently, so maybe with airline fees it is always cheaper. It used to be that you had to have a corporate account with enough discounts to make it cheaper than checked luggage.
Big hotels host lots of conferences, legal depositions, business shows, etc. They get a FedEx truck almost daily and don't blink if a package arrives addressed to you with "Guest checking in on XXXX date" appended to it. It happens all the time! And when you leave, you call the front desk and ask them to take a box to the loading dock for the next FedEx truck.
When I travel, I often stay in rentals that have laundry machines, because it’s so much easier just to pack light and do laundry every couple of days. I’m also not against packing light with the intention of going shopping if I need something. That’s how I get a lot of fun clothes!
I think it's kinda race to the bottom / lemons market. A lot of people search for flights through aggregators so you need to optimize for the price shown there, and the customer doesn't know if that's the real price or if there'll be add ons so they won't go for a more expensive one on faith.
Best bet is finding out which airline treats you best and going all the way to a loyalty card with them or something I guess? that seems to work out a little better
I've heard it said that airlines make all their money from interest payments on points. That is the credit card companies are buying miles today, and when the flight is taken the airline faces the charge in between that time they invest the money and collect the interest.
I'm not sure if it is true, but it is an interesting insight even if not strictly true.
It's not just time-value. It's also not just tying/advertising (although it is some of that - if I'm getting a ton of "free" points to American, I'm more likely to fly with them). It's both of those, and so much more.
Loyalty points work like gift cards in that huge numbers of them go unredeemed for any value, so selling them is just printing money. And unlike gift cards, which are typically denominated in currency, airline points don't have a fixed exchange rate to USD, so the airline can sell them to Chase or whatever for $0.01, and then if it needs to rebalance the books to shed the outstanding liability it can easily adjust the point costs of flights to make them only worth $0.009 - it's the same as a price hike, but in a way that's less noticeable to most customers most of the time. And that's assuming they don't just sell the points at an outright profit to begin with.
You can find a number of analyses showing that airlines operate at a loss if you set aside the miles-economy revenue streams. United famously got a line of credit secured against their loyalty program in 2020, in which they and their creditors valued the loyalty program at more than the value of the entire company of United Airlines - which would naively imply that the actual airline, the part of the company that owns large expensive machines and actually sells a product to consumers, had negative value.
It's technically true but only because airline overall profits are really low. So you can pick any profitable corner of the business and say "the airline makes all their profit from branded toy lines" or what have you.
> I prefer to fly less since the experience has consistently deteriorated over decades.
I never liked flying, but was able to put up with it better when I was younger.
Nowadays, I get some satisfaction by leveraging credit card points through my business to get "free" tickets. I mentally steel myself to the unpleasantness of the airport, boarding, and flying, and try to get as much work done on my laptop as possible when I am sitting down so at least I can feel that I accomplished something by the time I reach my destination.
I agree. Boards should be under more pressure to deliver longterm outcomes of benefit beyond their immediate board term, KPIs and rewards. Possibly the path out is to make some board renumeration tied to 5 and ten year success.
These shitty LCC patterns make short term revenue and the long term consequence of market share moves don't get factored in.
All told, is all this chicanery benefiting airlines?