Make a good product that does not rely on exploiting user data. Advertise in relevant locations without tracking (e.g. if you sell cars, advertise on a car-centric website/forum/magazine).
You don't have to reply to every comment I make in reply to someone else in this thread, just FYI.
> Make a good product that does not rely on exploiting user data. Advertise in relevant locations without tracking (e.g. if you sell cars, advertise on a car-centric website/forum/magazine).
No, none of this is a light pattern. It's just abstaining from the activity entirely.
What are you on about? Do you realise you replied to me first, and the two times I replied to you responding to someone else were on the same thread that goes back to my original comment? No one’s after you, I just looked at the child replies in my post. Honestly I didn’t even realise I was replying to the same person. Complaining about it happening twice is quite the persecution complex.
> the two times I replied to you responding to someone else
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> Honestly I didn’t even realise I was replying to the same person.
I find that very odd, not to pay attention to who you are replying to, but OK.
> quite the persecution complex.
Nah. It's a pretty common behavior or 'pattern' that some people who feel strongly about a position will reply to other child comments by a person they are debating with.
I find it frustrating because it normally leads to a lot of redundancy, with the same points being repeated in multiple places, just wasting time.
I mistakenly thought that's what you were doing. I apologize.
That's not a light pattern, that's giving up the activity entirely.
If an activity is explicitly legal, even with regulations, then there should be a light pattern for that activity is there is a dark pattern.
Look at selling cigarettes in the 80s. A dark pattern would be trying to influence kids on the low, which mascots like Joe Camel.
A light pattern would not be abstaining from selling cigarettes entirely, analogous to what you suggest, but rather voluntarily adding labels to packaging and taking other precautions.
> What's not right? Giving up pervasive and invasive tracking and selling user data?
Exactly. Abstaining isn't a light pattern. A light pattern would be doing the thing in a non malicious way.
> GDPR, literally, is: if you use data not strictly required for the functioning of your business, ask user for consent.
You're missing the point. You were alleging businesses are using dark patterns while being in compliance with the law. I'm asking what a light pattern would be for collecting as much data as possible which is an explicitly legal activity as long as the regulations are followed.
You answered not engaging in that activity at all, which is not an answer.
"Abstaining from selling hard drugs to minors isn't a light pattern. Show me how we can sell hard drugs to minors even with all the regulations in place"
Though I hate analogies, but this is what this sounds like to me.
> I'm asking what a light pattern would be for collecting as much data as possible which is an explicitly legal activity as long as the regulations are followed.
You either follow GDPR or do not engage in this activity. What is so hard to understand?
Instead the industry came up with the obnoxious cookie banners tricking users into providing any and all data and selling that data to thousands of "partners".
> Though I hate analogies, but this is what this sounds like to me.
The difference though is that selling drugs to kids is flat out illegal, no ifs ands or buts.
Data collection is explicitly legal as long as regulations are followed, so I think it's a flawed analogy.
> What is so hard to understand?
That the businesses are complying with the GDPR but you're still saying it's a dark pattern and complaining about what they are doing.
I need to remind you at this point the topic of discussion is who is responsible for the cookie popups, not the morality or legality of the activity that the EU felt required regulation. The answer is the EU, because that's how they chose to address the issue.
> Instead the industry came up with the obnoxious cookie banners tricking users into providing any and all data and selling that data to thousands of "partners".
Most cookie banners are not deceptive at all. They are the result of complying with the legislation the EU mandated.
In fact, the cookie banners that are as straightforward and clear as possible, and as non intrusive as possible, are an example of a light pattern in this context.
