> In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes land with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they've arranged to imitate things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas—he's the controller—and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. So I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they're missing something essential, because the planes don't land.
The US isn’t an abstract ‘democracy’, it’s a functioning democracy with a specific set of rules.
I don’t agree with Mitch McConnell’s decision to refuse to have a hearing for Merrick Garland. I’m just saying it’s not against the Constitution as it is written. If the Obama Administration thought they had a legal right to force a hearing on Merrick Garland in the Senate, they would’ve filed a lawsuit to force the issue. The fact that they didn’t tells me that what McConnell and the GOP did wasn't illegal. It may have arguably been immoral and unethical, but it wasn’t illegal, and that was the point of my post that you responded to.
> The US isn’t an abstract ‘democracy’, it’s a functioning democracy with a specific set of rules.
Democracy isn't something you "are," democracy is something you do. Democracy is the sum of beliefs, actions, and understanding of the people in a "democratic" society.
So you cannot talk about us being a democracy without respect to the idea that democracy is a spectrum. You used the word "functioning" democracy which implies that democracy is a spectrum. In your spectrum you at least have [non-democracy, non-functioning democracy, functioning democracy, abstract democracy]. It is even more grey than that. Every 18 year old that doesn't vote means society is 1/N less democratic. Every time gerrymandering happens, society is 3 districts less democratic. Every time you get a politician who would choose party over country, or who chooses loyalty over values, you 1/5xx less democratic. Every time you get a supreme court judge who takes bribes, you are 1/9th less democratic.
I hope you find that persuasive.
You can say a judge has the authority to exercise discretion, and when they make a ruling they are justified by their position and the process that got them there, but that ignores the greater context of the reasoning behind their rulings. A judge that takes a bribe is ruling from a place of corruption. A judge that rules based on loyalty to a party rather than loyalty to a set of ideals is what separates cargo cult justice, from justice.
It is the ideals and adherence to them that separates cargo cult justice from justice, or cargo cult democracy from democracy.
"functioning" democracy is a judgement call on a spectrum. Your range of "functioning" is not the same as my range of "functioning." I do not believe we are functioning. I believe we are declining. We have supreme court judges openly taking bribes without consequences and a grid locked congress that is incapable of resolving the situation or creating consequences. We have a president who attempted a coup and he is being legally threatened for things that they think they can win, rather than the thing that is the most dangerous and criminal. He isn't being prosecuted for the coup, he's being prosecuted because of the coup. That should be terrifying.
The gridlock doesn't justify the lack of consequences.
> The fact that they didn’t tells me that what McConnell and the GOP did wasn't illegal. It may have arguably been immoral and unethical, but it wasn’t illegal, and that was the point of my post that you responded to.
Obama was the first black president and didn't rock the boat. The GOP declared war on America and the democratic party was and is in denial about it. You can be in shock or denial, or be confronted with a new situation you don't know how to handle and that explains what happened without the explanation being "it was justified because there was no action." Trump is clearly criminal and it's taken what, 6 years to see the potential for any consequences at all?
I don't find "they didn't do anything, so it's all justified" compelling.
> You can say a judge has the authority to exercise discretion, and when they make a ruling they are justified by their position and the process that got them there, but that ignores the greater context of the reasoning behind their rulings. A judge that takes a bribe is ruling from a place of corruption. A judge that rules based on loyalty to a party rather than loyalty to a set of ideals is what separates cargo cult justice, from justice.
I think the Federalist Society is one of the most dangerous organizations in the US. I’m with you on this.
> We have a president who attempted a coup and he is being legally threatened for things that they think they can win, rather than the thing that is the most dangerous and criminal. He isn't being prosecuted for the coup, he's being prosecuted because of the coup. That should be terrifying.
You’re preaching to the choir. It is terrifying, 1/6 was the scariest day in US history in my lifetime and I was alive for 9/11.
> Obama was the first black president and didn't rock the boat. The GOP declared war on America and the democratic party was and is in denial about it. You can be in shock or denial, or be confronted with a new situation you don't know how to handle and that explains what happened without the explanation being "it was justified because there was no action." Trump is clearly criminal and it's taken what, 6 years to see the potential for any consequences at all?
You keep saying ‘justified’ when all I was claiming is that it was ‘not illegal’. There’s a distinction there that you aren’t acknowledging. All I’m claiming is that it was within the letter of the law.
Again, the Obama administration was highly aware of how important getting Merrick Garland seated was, if they thought they had a legal right to force a hearing, they certainly would have. It was his last year in office, no re-election to worry about. They didn’t pursue legal remedies because what the GOP did was legal. It’s patronizing to Obama to claim he didn’t pursue it because he was the first black president.
If voting doesn't result in representation, then the act of voting is just a ritual and not an exertion of political power.
You're saying because we performed a ritual around judges, we should be getting the result we want, or judges that represent America at large.
You're so focused on rituals you are missing the bigger picture.
That is cargo cult democracy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science
> In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes land with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they've arranged to imitate things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas—he's the controller—and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. So I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they're missing something essential, because the planes don't land.