> Using exogenous testosterone will shut down your endogenous production, or at least permanently reduce it
Can, not will. You're right though to point out that the body loves homeostasis and will downregulate endogenous testosterone production if serum levels are high from supplementation. Testicular atrophy from extended use is a real potential problem.
Unfortunately, TRT clinics are like the Internet Viagra doctors: they are drug dealers with an MD.
If you have low testosterone then see an endocrinologist or a urologist for treatment. There are certainly cases where exogenous testosterone injections are indicated, but depending on the kind of hypogonadism in question there can be better alternatives that don't involve injections or infertility.
It's worth noting that the secular testosterone decline is not a "new normal," but rather basically every man in the West is suffering from some kind of hypogonadism. We can speculate about the causes, but the precipitous drops in average population serum testosterone levels measured over the past decades is anything but natural or normal.
> many of which are long lasting or permanent
True, but not all of the permanent effects are negative. Exogenous testosterone causes muscle cell nuclei to multiply, and there is a permanent anabolic effect as a result. It's nowhere near as dramatic as being on exogenous androgens, but it's still significant.
> You're right though to point out that the body loves homeostasis and will downregulate endogenous testosterone production if serum levels are high from supplementation.
Any supplementation will, by definition, raise serum levels higher than they were before the extra testosterone was added.
This is what causes the downregulation, so of course it will happen. Like I said, people like to be in denial about this because it doesn’t necessarily happen right away, but it happens.
> True, but not all of the permanent effects are negative.
That’s a weird way of looking at it. Those extra muscle nuclei won’t be of much use if you discontinue TRT and your endogenous system is too atrophied to keep up with basic bodily needs. You have to look at the big picture.
Your comment is a good example of the denial I was talking about: For whatever reason, some people don’t want to believe that the negative effects will happen to them, and they want to ignore the consequences or change the subject to only talk about the positives.
It's worth noting that if you go to a doctor's office and get some treatment some of the evidence behind that treatment will probably overlap with the replication crisis. I don't know of any commonly accepted definition for the start of the papers covered by the replication crisis, but it's at least the last three decades.
> Does this apply to Longfolia leaf (Tongkat Ali)?
No -- Tongkat and other naturally occurring compounds like Fadogia increase testosterone by stimulating the body's production of Luteinizing Hormone, which in turn spurs the testes to produce more testosterone.
If you want to know more about this, the Huberman Lab podcast has visited the topic several times. His view is that Tongkat and Fadogia are safe to take for long periods of time without interruption ("cruise") and he has stated that he himself takes them as a supplement.
Can, not will. You're right though to point out that the body loves homeostasis and will downregulate endogenous testosterone production if serum levels are high from supplementation. Testicular atrophy from extended use is a real potential problem.
Unfortunately, TRT clinics are like the Internet Viagra doctors: they are drug dealers with an MD.
If you have low testosterone then see an endocrinologist or a urologist for treatment. There are certainly cases where exogenous testosterone injections are indicated, but depending on the kind of hypogonadism in question there can be better alternatives that don't involve injections or infertility.
It's worth noting that the secular testosterone decline is not a "new normal," but rather basically every man in the West is suffering from some kind of hypogonadism. We can speculate about the causes, but the precipitous drops in average population serum testosterone levels measured over the past decades is anything but natural or normal.
> many of which are long lasting or permanent
True, but not all of the permanent effects are negative. Exogenous testosterone causes muscle cell nuclei to multiply, and there is a permanent anabolic effect as a result. It's nowhere near as dramatic as being on exogenous androgens, but it's still significant.