Sounds like calligraphy is an activity you enjoy for its own sake.

For some reason I've often been focused on what the benefit from doing an activity is. For pure enjoyment I would just consume movies or video games. Somehow I missed the idea that there are many activities that might be beneficial, but that even without the benefits would be enjoyable activities to engage in.

For example many programming tasks are enjoyable enough in themselves, even if they result in no outcome. Maybe that's why "this guy made $10 million with this app"-type of stories might be harmful, as they makes you forget that programming in itself is often an enjoyable task, never mind the other rewards.

Besides programming, I would say messing around with music creation programs (Ableton Live is my favorite) and 3D modeling software (Blender) can be as much fun as gaming, even if you aren't any good. I've also experimented with drawing, but I find that a bit harder to enjoy while having no skill. Maybe there is a base level of competence you need to attain before an activity starts being enjoyable for its own sake.

> Maybe there is a base level of competence you need to attain before an activity starts being enjoyable for its own sake.

This has been on mind so much. I think that level we call base level is often set by comparison to other skilled people that we look upto o compare our progress against. And of course comparison is a thief of joy and results more in disappointment that not. In activities I've picked, i usually just see if im truly enjoying it, if theres potential depths to explore in the future and then go with the mantra - Disregard everything else. I hope that makes sense.

O man, drawing is something I'd commited to learn as well although I really it has a steep learning curve. But its the same deal with anything no? Gotta keep going through the grind before we can get good at it and the best way that happens is if we can enjoy the process itself. So yeah I guess I'm just agreeing with you :)

I started to get into calligraphy. I got quite good at copperplate/engrosser's script (I was never quite clear on the difference). My script was good enough that people thought it was printed. But I just don't know where to take it from there. I feel like I need a good book on the subject. Like The Art of Computer Programming, but for calligraphy. I've been unable to find such a book, though. Any suggestions on how progress?

Johnston's "Writing & Illuminating & Lettering" is something of a classic. It's not nearly broad enough in scope to be a Knuth-equivalent, though.

let me start with sharing a link to my instagram where I've been recording and sharing some penmanship study notes. It's a little nerdy, but I think there oughta be lots more video resources :) https://www.instagram.com/theksop

As for good books, oh so many. Please dont discount the value of a book because it's in public domain or because they've been written a while ago.My taste generally favors american penmanship derivations and as such prefer engrosser's script over styles grouped under copperplate. Copperplate are styles that derive from English Round hand. Engrosser's script evolved from copperplate but did so in a time of the steel nib which allowed more nuanced curves. Engrosser's script has a very definitive guide from the Zanerian college that is clear, concise and has great exemplars. So my recommendation is - The Zanerian Manual. There is a copy in archive.org but David Grimes recently scanned a high def version of it on his website https://masgrimes.com/archive . Beauty of a book. I refer to very often.

You didn't ask but some good material suggestions with KISS in mind - get a good (not speedball) oblique holder, McCaffery's Iron gall Ink, a rhodia book and a bunch of Leonardt Principal nibs because you'll go through them a lot. Just like programming, once you get the fundamentals right, you can handle anything that whimsies you.

I have a particular fondness for the Spencerian family and as such regard the "New Spencerian Compendium" as a definite recommendation. It was done by Papa Spencer's sons(including a genius penman Lyman Spencer) and has some well written teaching material and theory on styles that have spring from the Spencerian family. While on this topic, I'd like to recommend a book from the Zanerian college about one of my favorite penmen - Louis Madarasz. It's called - The secret of the skill of Louie Madarasz.

All of these books are freely available as pdfs on archive.org . Also you should visit iampeth.org at some point - an organization that has spent lots of resources to dig up and preserve the beauty that was the golden age of American Penmanship. So many good helpful notes on that website.

I wouldn't mind offering personalized advice or more book recommendations. Feel free to DM me on instagram.

Thanks for that. I'll look into everything you've mentioned here.

As for nibs, I bought a load of different ones but the only one I got good results with was Gillot 303. Are the Leonardt Principal ones like that?

The 303s have better flex than Leonardt Principal. The catch is there’s just so many duds, I’ve found it easier just to get the Principal. If you have Gillots already though, that’s great :)