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They don't have a PE ratio. They have never made a profit.

PE ratio too high!

Sir, that is price/revenue ratio

(jawdrop)


NaN is scary

Cloudflare has never made a profit.

Is your stance that shareholders should perpetually subsidize it out of the goodness of their hearts?


My stance is this: Fine, maybe you need to restructure for profit reasons. If that is the case, then it is also beholden upon the people doing the layoffs to understand their responsibility in that.

In an ideal world, a layoff of this scale would also require a shakeup of the management that let it get this bad in the first place.

What's more, the higher up the chain, the less onerous the layoff for the individual getting laid off.


I've been using v4 pro for the past few days and honestly in terms of quality it seems more or less on par with open AIs 5.4 or opus 4.6 (i havent tried 4.7)

To be clear, i'm not doing state of the art stuff. I mostly used it for frontend development since i'm not great at that and just need a decent looking prototype.

But for my purposes it's a perfectly good model, and the price is decent.

I can't wait for open model small enough for me to run locally come out though. I hate having to rely on someone elses machines (and getting all my data exfiltrated that way)


You can use Tinfoil for inference, which lets you use the model in the cloud while getting similar privacy as running locally: https://tinfoil.sh/inference.

Disclaimer I'm the cofounder. This works by running the model inside a secure enclave (using NVIDIA confidential computing) and verifying the open source code running inside the enclave matches the runtime attestation. The docs walk you through the verification process: https://docs.tinfoil.sh/verification/verification-in-tinfoil


Worth noting that NVIDIA confidential computing and similar schemes have been compromised and shouldn't be relied upon if it really matters. See https://tee.fail/ and similar.

with physical access right?

I was interested in trusted execution environments and how safe they were. If you look on google scholar and start reading, they seem super vulnerable. The feeling is that the industry has no better option and that they are a way to tell customers they are safe when they're not

Hi there I use your service. It's great. But I have a few requests... Please support crypto payments...? Also you are missing some open source models (qwen 30b 3a, Deepseek 4 flash).

Unfortunately we don’t support crypto payments at this time as we use Stripe.

We try to add models selectively as we have to be mindful about our compute allocation. Is there a specific reason why you need those two models (and our models such as Kimi K2.6, GLM 5.1, Deepseek V4 Pro, Gemma 4 amongst others) don’t suffice for your use case?

Feel free to email me at tanya@tinfoil.sh and happy to continue the conversation there.


Tinfoil looks super interesting! Do you have load balancers in front of the trusted compute stack? Looked at a design like this in a different space and the options for ensuring privacy in a traditional "best practice" architecture seemed very limited

Yes we do, but the load balancer also runs inside the enclave and is attested: https://github.com/tinfoilsh/confidential-model-router

In turn, that attests the model enclaves, for instance, see https://github.com/tinfoilsh/confidential-deepseek-v4-pro. The model repo/release that the model router attests is included in the attestation config, which creates a chain of trust.

Also see https://docs.tinfoil.sh/verification/attestation-architectur...


While that does sound interesting, I don't see any benefit for me.

It would still ultimately exfiltrate the data outside of my control, and frankly i don't trust any "secure enclave" tech.

As far as i'm concerned physical access is root access, and for any private stuff that is wholly unacceptable.


Very reasonable if you have the resources to run it locally and certainly the best option.

But we created Tinfoil because not everyone has that capability especially when it comes to larger models, and it still doesn’t solve for the situation where you’re building a service for your end user and you want to lock yourself out of accessing their data. In those cases, this is the second best thing you can do.

The technical walkthrough section on this blog that we co-wrote with one of our customers walks through the various attack surfaces: https://www.workshoplabs.ai/blog/private-post-training

We weave in many mitigations against attacks, but it depends on what class of attack it is.

If there are specific attacks you are concerned about, happy to provide an answer if it’s something we can address or not.


Thanks for sharing your experience, I’m looking to try it out.

Which provider are you using for inference? Opencode or the DeepSeek api?


I just use the API directly. It's simple enough to setup and i like the control i get from just charging up and not having to worry about any random subscription taking money out of my account

You request the judge to apply a lien on their assets. You take that to their bank and request that it be applied, and the money paid out.

If that doesn't work, you can always go to the police/bailiff with the court order and schedule a date/time for them to go with you to their offices to seize and auction off their stuff.


Such censorship shouldn't exist in the first place.

most laws enforce agreements.


Yes... but the agreement only says they won't train on your data if the law is already preventing them from doing so.


thats the point


>But it does show a number of problems inherent in Germany's current situation: (a) shortage of skilled laborers; (b) high cost of labor; and (c) exorbitantly much red tape. These three points alone are among the most frequently cited factors that companies feel inhibit business, and it holds across disciplines.

There are 9 billion people in the world, roughly half of them are perfectly capable of doing manual labor.

There is plenty of skilled labor, and the cost is frankly not that high, you just need to let them work.

Can we be serious here? There is one and only one cause of "high housing prices" and that is a political choice to make housing expensive.

Don't tell people what they can or can't do with their property.

Don't prevent people from being brought in to build stuff.

Do these 2 things and housing will be built if the price is truly high. Anything else is bullshit.


Like most other things, labor is highly regulated in Germany. You've got to understand that (from my experience as an outsider) it seems to be a country where it matters more what you are on paper (e.g., degrees, certifications, etc) than what you can actually do (e.g., practical experience). Not that the latter is not valued at all, but on the job market, it's often not sufficient.

Labor costs are determined by a lot of regulations - minimal wage, mandatory health insurance fees, mandatory pensions fees, etc. make labor costs in Germany much higher than the average in the West. So, it's all not that easy.


It is that easy.

Those regulations are choices. You can make different choices. You can make them tomorrow.

I'm sorry but i cannot take seriously any problem that essentially boils down to "We want it to be like this".


>Don't prevent people from being brought in to build stuff.

If housing is about supply and demand, surely the demand part matters too.


High cost of labour is positive.


>but at least £200bn will be sucked out of the UK economy back to investors

That's not how the economy works... Nothing gets "sucked out of the economy", and certainly not a productive investment that generated that income.


The distinction you're missing is between economic activity and wealth retention. Foreign investment in UK data centres generates GDP (construction jobs, some ops roles) but the productive capital and its returns accrue to foreign shareholders. This is the classic GDP vs GNI gap - Ireland is the textbook example, enormous GDP inflated by multinationals, but GNI per capita significantly lower because profits repatriate.

If a fund invests £100bn expecting 15-20% IRR, they're extracting multiples of that over the asset lifetime. That's the whole point - they're not philanthropists. The UK tax take is thin because these structures are explicitly designed for tax efficiency.

The deeper issue is where in the value chain the UK is positioning itself. Hosting someone else's compute is the low-margin end - it's being a warehouse. The high-margin positions are fabrication and supply chain. Taiwan, South Korea, and now the US via CHIPS Act understand this. They're not inviting hyperscalers to build data centres and calling it industrial strategy - they're building domestic fab capacity because that's where durable value and strategic leverage sit.

The UK is offering itself as a site rather than building itself as a participant. Those are very different things.


> HR on the surface seems unimportant, but you’d notice if the company stopped having health insurance or sending your taxes to the IRS etc etc.

Interesting on how the very example you give for "oh this job isn't really bullshit" ultimately ends up being useless for the business itself, and exists only as a result of regulation.

No, health insurance being provided by employers, or tax withholding aren't useful things for anyone, except for the state who now offloads its costs onto private businesses.


Only result of regulation, that statement invalidates probably a majority of modern work, and like every legal professional.


i agree.


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