Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | epsilonsalts's commentslogin

Yeah that's the outcome theorized by Gödel.

Incompleteness is inherent to our understanding as the universe is too vast and endless for us to ever capture a holistic model of all the variables.

Gödel says something specific about human axiomatic systems, akin to a special relativity, but it generalizes to physical reality too. A written system is made physical writing it out, and never complete. Demonstrates that our grasp of physical systems themselves is always incomplete.


Gödel’s incompleteness says almost nothing about this. I wish people wouldn’t try to apply it in ways that it very clearly is not applicable to.

An environment living in Conway’s Game of Life could be quite capable of hypothesizing that it is implemented in Conway’s Game of Life.


Indeed, as I think I commented before here, this kind of self-reference is exactly what makes Gödel's proof work.


Now the question is are we in Conways Game of Life?


That's not what they were saying.

Systems can hypothesize about themselves but they cannot determine why the rules they can learn exist in the first place. Prior states are no longer observable so there is always incomplete history.

Conway's Game of Life can't explain its own origins just itself. Because the origins are no longer observable after they occur.

What are the origins of our universe? We can only guess without the specificity of direct observation. Understanding is incomplete with only simulation and theory.

So the comment is right. We would expect to be able to define what is now but not completely know what came before.


If they had a correct point, the appeal to Gödel’s results did not help to justify it.


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46955821

"The universe is not required to appeal to your aesthetic tastes."


You all actually going to believe government propagated data?

Trump is obviously untrustworthy because he keeps saying the quiet part out loud.

The rest of the government obfuscates untrustworthiness and elders love to drag youth as the source of moral decay in our society.

We are generally more educated these days though so "look at them eating avocado toast!" and straight up fear mongering won't cut it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seduction_of_the_Innocent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26328105.amp

So they resort to unfalsifiable data. You all going to put the work in that would be required to refute this?

But if they insist on playing this game, OK:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_deni...


The data cited are international organizations so they are generally pretty trustworthy. However looking at the data tells a very different story from what this professor is claiming. They are averaging all countries regardless of context. Including countries at war, countries who have inconsistent data, etc. Not to mention all the different educational systems. Looking at each country though the results are fairly consistent from 2000 to 2022.


I agree the model is poorly constructed, which is why I concluded American leaders are looking to spread whatever narrative they can to deflect from their own agenda and incompetence.


He says, citing Wikipedia, lol.


Do we peak or are there fewer patterns than we want to believe and eventually accept and just quit looking?

Sure we can generate syntactic and semantic descriptions endlessly but to use software as an example, we made a lot of the same things that look different only in the symbols used.

Ansible and Chef. Terraform and Pulumi. Ruby and Python. Windows and Linux. Burger shack 1, burger shack 2. They all solve the same problem.

Being able to generate semantics endlessly does not upend our daily patterns and routines. Life on Earth is pretty obvious.


Your entire argument is a personal vibe.

Maybe your literacy is not as great as you think it is and unfamiliar written tones are difficult for you. The result is personal discomfort and it's easier to blame external reality rather than your own ignorance and inexperience.


I noticed that ZeroGPT has a high false positive rate. Put the same document in other checkers and it's says zero AI.


Not that far off from all the tech CEOs who have projected they're one step away from giving us Star Trek TNG, they just need all the money and privilege with no accountability to make it happen

DevOps engineers who acted like the memes changed everything! The cloud will save us!

Until recently the US was quite religious; 80%+ around 2000 down to 60%s now. Longtermism dogma of one kind or another rules those brains; endless growth in economics, longtermism. Those ideal are baked into biochemical loops regardless of the semantics the body may express them in.

Unfortunately for all the disciples time is not linear. No center to the universe means no single epoch to measure from. Humans have different birthdays and are influenced by information along different timelines.

A whole lot of brains are struggling with the realization they were bought into a meme and physics never really cared about their goals. The next generation isn't going to just pick up the meme-baton validate the elders dogma.


> Star Trek TNG

Everyone wants star trek, but we're all gunna get star wars lol.


Mad Max


:(


The next generation is steeped in the elder's propaganda since birth, through YouTube and TikTok. There's only the small in–between generation who grew up learning computers that hadn't been enshittified yet.


That's self selecting gibberish.

Computing has nothing to do with the machine.

The first application of the term "computer" was humans doing math with an abacus and slide ruler.

Turing machines and bits are not the only viable model. That little in-between generation only knows a tiny bit about "computing" using machines IBM and Apple, Intel, etc, propagandized them into buying. All computing must fit our model machine!

Different semantics but same idea as my point about DevOps.


I am reading your comment on a billion people computing with slide rules. Wait, no I'm not.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: